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Unexpectedly hostile church inhabitants

Unexpectedly hostile church inhabitants

Postby Chani » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:43 pm

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but since the new patch inhabitants of the church basement often wander to the next building and if they spot you there they rise an alarm and attack you with bare hands. The same if they spot a player in the basement behind the bars (and they do even if there is a pill of rubble high to the cellar between you and them).
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Re: Unexpectedly hostile church inhabitants

Postby skidmarx » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:19 pm

I agree that the Church inhabitants are exceptionally twitchy. But for me they have always been that way, from the original release. I believe it is intended behaviour.

Just running past Father Oleg is enough to flag the hostile reaction. You have to walk when near anybody, and be quiet and considerate. Any loud noises can set them off, so pay attention to who is within the "audible" range. Even running up the Church isle will create a reaction if someone can hear you on the floor below.

I think it is a hyper-sensitivity to his initial request that you "Do not disturb his flock". In other words, the game wants you to pay attention to what other people say to you, and heed their words. I suspect the noise sensitivity at the Church is to add some variability to the gameplay.

Similar things can happen at the hospital. I was shot dead before getting in the entrance because I was carrying a crowbar.... (no weapons allowed)


Examples of triggering hostility:
- Running through a door into the annex, and meeting father Oleg on the other side. Even though the survivor stopped just short of charging past him, the fight icons lit up.
- Using an axe on the top floor of the annex to chop furniture, reduced a girl to tears on the middle floor. I didn't even know she was there until exiting. The armed man that patrols the annex blamed me for it, and wanted to shoot me on the spot.
- Digging and scavenging in the tunnel, when the man is standing watching the gate. I think he is just within range of the noises made. Line of sight is not a problem, but noise is. So if he is walking up to his smoking position as you dig/scavenge, you should be OK.

I have not tested it, but I expect quiet-as-a-mouse Arica will not trigger the hostile reaction by running at the Church.
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Re: Unexpectedly hostile church inhabitants

Postby Chani » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:57 am

- Digging and scavenging in the tunnel, when the man is standing watching the gate. I think he is just within range of the noises made. Line of sight is not a problem, but noise is. So if he is walking up to his smoking position as you dig/scavenge, you should be OK.

I have not tested it, but I expect quiet-as-a-mouse Arica will not trigger the hostile reaction by running at the Church.


It's not true. There are few piles of stuff and 2 piles of rubble between you and a smoker underneath the priest and the sound of digging doesn't go that far. I used Arica and it was just the same. The moment they spot you behind the bars OR if they wander to next building (and they often do even if you're on last floor and there is just no way of them to hear anything that's happening there from their church basement) they rise an alarm. It's funny because they then run past the ARMED GUY who's plundering there and aim for you :).

And that never happened to me before the patch. I could grab everything behind the bars and that guy from church basement were just smoking his cig. Trying to go to the church basement was triggering the event. And that girl in the church basement bursts to tears for no reason apparently, I first have heard her cry when sneaking (not running) through the church to trade with a priest.
Chani
 
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Re: Unexpectedly hostile church inhabitants

Postby skidmarx » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:57 pm

Chani wrote:There are few piles of stuff and 2 piles of rubble between you and a smoker underneath the priest and the sound of digging doesn't go that far. I used Arica and it was just the same. The moment they spot you behind the bars OR if they wander to next building (and they often do even if you're on last floor and there is just no way of them to hear anything that's happening there from their church basement) they rise an alarm. It's funny because they then run past the ARMED GUY who's plundering there and aim for you :).

And that never happened to me before the patch. I could grab everything behind the bars and that guy from church basement were just smoking his cig. Trying to go to the church basement was triggering the event. And that girl in the church basement bursts to tears for no reason apparently, I first have heard her cry when sneaking (not running) through the church to trade with a priest.

Very interesting. I thought I was sure, but now less so. Arica certainly changes the facts about noise being the problem.

I still think the trigger is far more subtle than any of us realise. I am certainly still experimenting, but slowly I am having less and less trouble at the Church.

However, I got that hostile tunnel scavenging reaction in the original release, in my very first playthrough, so I do not believe it is a problem with the patch. Whatever it is, has always been there.

I learned very quickly to be slow and cautious in the Church. The only place I risk running is from outside halfway up the aisle. And in the above ground section between Church and annex (but only when there are no other people present).

I believed it was the noise of running, but I am coming to the conclusion that perhaps the SIGHT of anyone running in the Church location is a problem. (The main aisle might be safe, but anywhere in the basement or annex is not.) Because I have seen the hostile reaction when someone exited the sleeping quarters door just as my survivor reached the ladder to climb into the Church. I don't remember if the smoking man was standing near the gate or not. I think he was, but I chose to run when I reckoned I was far enough behind him. I was behind his back, so he wouldn't have seen me run.

I'm not sure if that's an additional trigger to the noise, but if it's the same for Arica, then I'd have to agree that noise is probably not the trigger after all.

So, was your survivor running from pile to pile in the tunnel? Because I have absolutely dug and scavenged that entire tunnel while in full view of the smoking man, without any hostility. But I walked everywhere.

I agree that it does feel inconsistent, but I have maintained friendly relations at the Church simply by never running there. The basement residents do seem twitchier than the armed guard that patrols and scavenges in the annex. But I don't run near him, either. He especially doesn't seem to like me chopping up his furniture for firewood. Perhaps the sight of a "weapon" sets him off?

The other day (experimenting) I successfully chopped the pew and chair right next to Father Oleg, just after he stood up near the alter. So he doesn't mind the noise, it seems. Nor the axe swinging inches from his head. But if you run past him (especially from behind) he gets jostled and goes instant hostile/fearful. Every time.
And since he was the one that I almost barged into while shoulder charging the door into the annex, he certainly reacts to "surprise" running from the front, too.

The girl bursting into tears might just be one of those people so fragile and shattered by the war, that a rat might set her off. The survivor unfairly getting the blame is somewhat "realistic", but what isn't is that you cannot make amends, and all of the other shelter survivors are also instant persona-non-grata, even when the Church has no way of knowing who they are.
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